Tips
Jun 5, 2022 03:57
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After we’ve met a few more times, she tends not to give off that “don’t follow me” signal anymore. However, with women like this, I can sense a transactional attitude in the moment they go from smiling to a straight face and turn away when saying goodbye after the date. It felt frightening, as if I were witnessing them switch instantly between their ON and OFF modes. That said, I’m trying to keep myself in check, believing that accepting this and dating them accordingly is part of the etiquette—or mindset—expected of male club members. Still, it’s been bothering me, so could you tell me whether my interpretation is correct?
Or is it perhaps a sign that ¥20,000 for dinner isn’t enough?
8 answers
🏅 倶楽部女性のご主人様に潤いを!
Mパパ、永遠の交際継続中!
B1タイプ〜A寄りパパです!
会う度大人は嫌と感じる方………ご相談ください。
Age: Private
👨 Male
Universe member
> Could “¥20,000 for dinner” be her way of signaling that it isn’t enough?
Yes, exactly.
It’s a clear sign that it wasn’t enough and didn’t leave her feeling satisfied.
You need to offer her something worth more than what you’re receiving in return. Depending on the person, that could be a higher allowance or something else entirely—but it should leave the woman feeling that her valuable time was well spent.
And this applies to both women and men, as well as to other aspects of the arrangement:
The rule is always to pay upfront. It’s also important to learn how to hand over the allowance even when the other person initially refuses it.
In my case, with “paper airplane” arrangements, I generally pay upfront, since there’s nothing more if the girl doesn’t continue seeing me. With girls who do continue, I focus more on communicating things beyond the allowance.
> She smiles and says, “Thank you.”
At that point, as far as being driven home is concerned, the interaction is already over.
Wouldn’t you expect to hear things like, “I had a great time,” “That went by so quickly,” “Is it okay if we stay a little longer?” or “I’d like to talk a bit more” or “I’d like to spend a little more time together”?
🏅 あなたの味方
お役に立てれば幸いです。
Age: Private
👨 Male
Universe staff
> If you hand over the daily allowance on the way home
Since it says after the meal, I assume you mean the payment referred to as “transportation expenses” under the club’s rules, correct?
If so, you should hand it over in advance, as the club requests. You mentioned being concerned about whether she would turn ON or OFF, but from the woman’s perspective, she’s anxious because she still hasn’t received the compensation promised under the club’s rules.
I believe the problem lies with your behavior.
The payment should be given during the meal, not in the car. Please hand it over as soon as you’re properly seated at the table.
If your goal is to enjoy making women feel uneasy, perhaps you should leave the club. Your objectives are simply too different.
> I was wondering about this, so could you tell me whether my approach was correct?
The questioner’s behavior was not appropriate. If you intend to continue using the club, you should seriously reflect on your actions.
It’s astonishing that people still put their own behavior aside and think the other person is the one acting strangely.
That said, the number of male members is steadily increasing, so I suppose it’s understandable if you’re new to this.
綾瀬なな
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Other
Don’t put her in your car the first time you meet. From a woman’s perspective, even a split second of wondering, “Am I about to be abducted?” or “Is he going to force himself on me in the car?” can be terrifying.
As for the allowance, you don’t have to hand it over the moment you meet. I think the easiest time is once you’re seated at the restaurant.
Making sure she feels absolutely no fear will lead to a better relationship.
As for hotels, it’s better to avoid love hotels. They’re dirty… You don’t need to book an executive suite or anything, though.
And if you’re concerned about whether a woman can switch between her public and private modes, then be very particular and offer to meet someone who better suits your preferences. If you choose based only on looks and youth, this is what happens. You’ll only end up emotionally drained. You want to feel fulfilled emotionally, too, right?
Age: Private
👨 Male
Universe member
People think in all sorts of different ways, so I don’t think you can interpret this as having just one meaning. Trying to fit everyone into a single pattern seems almost insulting to human nature.
Paying transportation expenses in advance is the rule, and personally, I also make a point of paying the allowance upfront.
Besides, I feel that a papa (a male supporter) continuing to follow someone around is basically stalking, so I make sure we part ways promptly. If it’s somewhere you’d feel uneasy about letting a woman walk alone, I think it’s best to give her taxi fare and accompany her only as far as a place where she can safely get into a taxi.
👨 Male
Universe member
It felt like I was watching someone switch from ON to OFF, and it was really scary.
A transactional relationship is important for both sides, but I avoid dating people who make that transactional nature too obvious. Otherwise, it just feels like I’m wasting money.
🏅 大阪の昼寝引きこもりトレーダー
スペ90以下のひとを厚く囲い込み、一生面倒見て実質一夫多妻で大切にしたい独身です。
Age: 50s
👨 Male
Universe member
I think it’s better to pay the allowance upfront.
Unless it’s late and dark, maybe you shouldn’t take her all the way to an urban train station. She might want to do some shopping or run an errand somewhere before heading home.
アーリー
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Other
Regarding the allowance for the first date, I’m assuming that the questioner’s “daily rate” refers to the allowance paid separately from transportation costs, since transportation expenses are supposed to be given immediately after meeting.
(If you’re actually referring to the transportation money, then it’s simply a violation of the rules and basic etiquette, which may well be the main reason.)
First of all, in papa-katsu (compensated dating in Japan), it’s often considered somewhat inappropriate to get into a car—a confined space—during the first meeting.
That’s what I’ve gathered from researching online and from women I’ve met through both apps and dating clubs. So, unless you forced her into the car, I’d say you’ve already cleared one hurdle by getting her to ride with you, which suggests she has at least some level of trust in you.
(As I mentioned at the beginning, if you didn’t give her the allowance until the end of the first date, then you created a situation where she had to get into the car first. From my perspective, that could come across as forcing her into it.)
That said, since you say this happens almost every time on your first dates, I think it simply means that the women don’t yet trust you to that extent.
It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re being treated especially poorly. If anything, I’d say it’s fairly typical—probably the majority experience—so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
I suspect the allowance probably isn’t the issue, assuming you’re offering ¥20,000 for dinner on the first meeting. I usually offer between ¥10,000 and ¥30,000, but basically ¥10,000.
You could try offering ¥100,000 as an experiment, but I have a feeling the result wouldn’t change.
In my case, whether I met women through apps or dating clubs, most of the women I wanted to see again after the first meeting allowed me to drive them home—unless they had been drinking or we were away on a business trip and it was physically impossible. I’ve never had anyone react that way toward me.
I’ve met enough women that I don’t think my sample size is extremely small. I’m fairly good at building trust and closing the distance, not only in these kinds of relationships but at work as well, so I’d attribute it to a difference in the level of trust.
🏅 プロおぢ。ほんとはプロパパと名乗りたいけど名乗るほどの実力がない名古屋の汚っさんです。
Age: Private
👨 Male
Universe member
If you’re hoping for a relationship that feels more like dating than a transactional relationship, you’ll need to keep things strictly transactional for now and wait for your chance. ¥20,000 for a two-hour dinner isn’t a bad amount. Even I, whose allowance is probably well above average, usually give ¥20,000–30,000 for a first dinner date, and it’s rare for me to give ¥40,000 or more.
Also, the basic rule is to hand over transportation money and the allowance upfront. If you give it afterward or partway through the date, she may spend the whole time wondering, “Am I actually going to get paid?” and be unable to focus on the date. I always make sure to give her the transportation money and allowance within three minutes of meeting.
For a man she’s only just met to walk a young woman to the station is actually inconsiderate and nothing but a nuisance. The best approach is to let her leave the restaurant first, with a short time gap, and end things there. If the station is far away, give her taxi fare separately and say goodbye at the restaurant.
Very occasionally, a woman has said, “Let’s walk to the station together,” on a first date and even linked arms with me. But that actually made me—the papa (a male supporter)—feel wary, so things never continued.
papa-katsu (compensated dating in Japan) is about enjoying things while keeping them transactional. From a woman’s perspective, a papa who doesn’t intrude into her personal space feels safe to date and get close to. But a papa who tries to barge into her personal space from the very first day will be labeled a “creepy old man,” which only works against him.
That said, if you consistently show good manners and maintain healthy boundaries, she may eventually start feeling lonely and say something like, “Come over to my place.” Sometimes a relationship can shift from transactional to something less defined, and become the kind of relationship you’re hoping for.
Be patient. As older men, the only way we can compete with young, handsome guys is through our composure and maturity. Patience, patience, patience. If you wait, good things occasionally happen, so keep at it!
To put it another way: be patient, but don’t demand anything in return. If you’re being patient while expecting the relationship to become something more, it’ll only cause stress. Instead, get yourself into the mindset that “this is just what papa-katsu is like” and accept that patience is simply part of it. Once you do, younger women will gradually start finding you more appealing, and your opportunities will open up endlessly.
Of course, it goes without saying that looking clean and presentable and offering a reasonably generous (well-paying) allowance are important too.