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Sep 24, 2020 09:19
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https://universe-club.jp/help/questions/view/4552
This is a related question.
I’d like to ask all the female respondents who oppose women having their first experience through a dating club.
1. All the virgins I’ve met through Universe and elsewhere were women who had simply ended up there because they hadn’t had the opportunity to meet anyone. Specifically, women who went to all-girls schools and women’s colleges and had no men at work, women who were beautiful but had somewhat intimidating features, or women who were a little socially awkward.
Even if you tell these women, “Your first time should be with someone your own age whom you’ve fallen for,” that doesn’t lead to any concrete solution at all. If you believe a man from a dating club isn’t an appropriate first partner, then please give them some specific advice on alternatives.
2. I’m simply curious, so I’d like to ask: for someone to come all the way to a low-end question box like this and ask a question, they must be in a pretty desperate state. In response, saying, “Your first time should be with someone your own age whom you’ve fallen for” seems cruel and inconsiderate, even if this is an anonymous question box. Does that really not occur to you? If I were the person asking, I wouldn’t want to come all the way here only to be told something like that by another woman.
It’s not that I have some particular preference for virgins, or that I want to give them a trauma over a meal at Jojoen. My stance is simply that these women have come here because they’re so troubled, so if I’m acceptable, I’m willing to be their first partner. That’s my way of being kind, but does it come across as creepy?
I spent the night again last night with the 29-year-old woman I mentioned before, whom I’ve been guiding since she was a virgin. I’ll continue looking after her until she eventually moves on from me.
6 answers
🏅 40歳でリアル異世界転生したオッサン l 元金融マン → 現AI界隈
出張ホストの実技試験合格してるので、対女性への無難な前戯とかマナーに一定の知見あり。
Age: 40s
👨 Male
Universe member
I’m Flag Maker, a column writer.
I’m sorry my replies have been so slow lately and for putting everyone out. Work has been absolutely hectic with the half-year deadline...
But today, a major project finally came through, so I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Yay!(^^)
As for my answer, I think men often tend to think in terms of “establishing patterns,” “creating rules, generalizing, and turning things into market rates”—in other words, a mindset of making assumptions and forcing things into set categories. The reason is that, without some kind of standard or answer, they feel uneasy about doing anything.
Without realizing it, we tend to make snap judgments based on past experiences, conventional wisdom, or prevailing rates. I naturally fall into that kind of thinking too, and often use it as a basis for judging things.
But I believe there’s something wonderful about continuing to struggle and search for answers, even while feeling uncertain.
As a reminder to myself, I believe that “a stable mindset that forces everything into a fixed mold gradually causes you to stagnate,” and that “you eventually stop receiving insights and advice from the people around you.”
I apologize for quoting a manga, but in volume 12 of *Usogui*, a character named Marco—who has two personalities, one being an immature, childlike personality and the other a serial killer—starts to lose because he desperately doesn’t want his killer personality to come to the surface.
And yet, precisely because he struggles and suffers, he is able to keep growing, and ultimately defeats his opponent. He is described as “a supreme warrior who soars through uncertainty.”
There are never any definitive answers—only failures and regrets. Even so, I want to keep struggling, suffering, and growing. I want to be that kind of “supreme papa-katsu gentleman who soars through uncertainty.”
I feel like I haven’t really answered the question, so I’m sorry(笑)
🏅 手コキ評論家
入会して8年。いまだ彷徨中です
Age: 60s
👨 Male
Universe member
I’m Joe, a male member.
Since Mac and I have been writing a word-chain column together, I hope you don’t mind me offering my answer.
What I had slightly misunderstood was that Mac is prepared to look after her all the way to the end. I think that deserves a great deal of respect.
That said, aren’t men with the kind of determination Mac has ultimately the exception? That’s why Joe suspects many of the women here object to young women losing their virginity to seasoned older men. Regardless of whether their own experiences were good or bad, women probably place great importance on what it means to lose their virginity. As a man myself, I can only see things from a male perspective, and I can’t truly empathize, so my conclusion may sound rather predictable: “It would probably be best to listen to the advice of female seniors.”
There is, however, one point in Mac’s question that made me feel uneasy—or rather, that I disagree with.
It’s the claim that this was “a cruel and inconsiderate act.” I assume the reasoning is that “anyone who comes to a place like this must be desperate, so that should be taken into consideration” (though that’s just my interpretation, so I may be mistaken).
Joe can’t agree on that point. To begin with, is the woman really desperate? Generally speaking, when young men and women say they’re “desperate,” it’s often just a pose. From the perspective of an older man like Joe, they haven’t thought things through nearly enough. Joe believes that being truly desperate means “thinking something through to the very end,” so, as Mac said, coming to a place like this is proof that she hasn’t really thought things through. In Joe’s own terminology: “Her brains are drooping.”
If I were Joe, I’d hand her a copy of *Think Forever, Think Deeply* (Soshisha Bunko) and walk away. Ah—now that I’ve written that, I realize this is probably why young women don’t like me. Sigh.
I’ve shared my thoughts, but I have no intention of persuading Mac, much less condemning him. You may have found this unpleasant, but I’d be glad if you could understand what Joe meant.
Administrative note:
I understand the word-chain prompt is “na.” I’d love to do “Nana-hime,” but it would be too painful to write without shedding tears, so I’ll go with a different topic. To make it worthy of the Universe column, perhaps “finishing inside”? Haha.
Other
I’m Rin, a female member.
Isn’t there value in people from all kinds of backgrounds answering based on their own experiences?
Not every female respondent had some wonderful first sexual experience. Keeping that in mind, we’re simply answering—out of concern—as people who may be just a little further along than you.
So saying, “That’s not right!” or “This is how it should be!” seems unreasonable to me. (Though if my answer makes you uncomfortable, I’m sorry.)
It’s perfectly normal for people, regardless of gender, to have opinions about someone else’s answers or way of thinking. But there’s no need to call them awful, wrong, or whatever.
Honestly, I even hate having to answer like this.
Depending on the question, male respondents often share their own experiences, while female respondents tend to remain observers.
But does that mean female respondents are writing things like, “Fix your answer,” “This is disgusting,” or “That’s terrible,” just to upset the other respondents? That’s what I’m asking.
(That’s different if the questioner feels uncomfortable or has been unfairly hurt.)
Ah, this is so unpleasant, lol.
Precisely because this is the kind of place it is, I make a point of holding firmly to what most people would consider common sense.
That should go without saying.
🏅 あなたの味方
お役に立てれば幸いです。
Age: Private
👨 Male
Universe staff
I’ll answer as Maezawa from the CEO’s office as well.
I’m a man myself, so like Mac, I used to think that having your first experience through a dating club could be perfectly fine.
I believe older men can have a lot going for them. And when you’re in that position yourself, I understand the desire to affirm your own choices.
But after reading the responses from the female contributors, I’m starting to feel that it may not be that simple. Maybe it really does come down to the difference between being a man and a woman—there may be something men simply can’t understand.
And perhaps it’s something we could never understand unless we were reborn as women.
Arguing that you’re right will only lead to a deadlock. In the first place, what’s “right” depends on the individual.
For the woman whose first experience was with Mac, it was the right choice for her. But for someone whose first experience was with an older man other than Mac, it may have become a deeply traumatic regret.
That’s precisely why this Q&A forum has value: it brings together a variety of opinions—though I can’t say for sure whether it really does.
The good thing, I think, is that you can look through them and find the answer that suits you best.
Ten people means ten different ways of thinking. Mac is right, and the other answers are right too. Each person is simply giving the answer they believe is right based on their own experiences.
Ultimately, it’s up to the person reading those answers to decide what they think.
Age: 60s
👨 Male
Universe member
I’m Basil, a male member.
I agree with the asker’s description of it as “a cruel and inconsiderate act,” and with Kazu’s calling him a “preachy old man.”
This is somewhat beside the point, but aside from a few exceptions, I feel that many female respondents forget they’re part of the dating-club community and make comments that are overly bound by mainstream social values and morality.
Since this is a Q&A forum for dating-club members, answers from that perspective would be more useful to the asker. Otherwise, it only emboldens female members who aren’t prepared enough and mistakenly think their usual standards will apply, creating more mismatches.
Age: Private
👨 Male
Universe member
I’m Kazu, a male member.
I’m not taking either the women’s side or the opposing position, but whenever the topic of virginity comes up, there’s something I find myself thinking about, so I wanted to write it down.
One of the annoying types of male members that women often mention is “the guy who lectures you.” You know, men who say things like, “Why are you registered here?” or “You’re doing this for money…” They may genuinely think they’re saying it for the woman’s own good, but I can only imagine how incredibly irritating it must be for the woman listening to it.
As for the question in question, the asker specifically said they wanted answers from male members. From that, I took it that what she really wanted to know was whether men would be disappointed if they found out their partner was a virgin. (Just to be clear, I’m of the opinion that even if you’re not among the people the asker requested answers from, you should answer if you want to!)
But isn’t saying, “Your first time should be with someone your own age whom you’ve fallen for,” essentially the same as being one of those lecturing older men? The only difference may be whether the person saying it is the same sex or the opposite sex. Depending on the topic, there are things that feel even more unpleasant when they’re said by someone of the same sex, right?
Virginity is a delicate subject, so I usually refrain from answering questions about it. But I figured the asker probably wouldn’t get many answers to the question of whether men would be disappointed, so while respecting her choice, I decided to share my own thoughts.
And what I think about men who are into virgins is simply: “I guess I can’t relate to preferences I don’t have myself.” I mentioned that I prefer women who are sexually experienced, and, if anything, I actually enjoy sex with women who have had children because it feels good.