If you’re offering 20,000 yen for dinner and 70,000 yen for an adult relationship on an app, then at Universe Club wouldn’t it be more like 50,000 yen for dinner and 100,000 yen for an adult relationship? After all, people go to Universe because the allowances on apps are too low.
Are you saying you’re hoping for 20,000 yen for dinner and 70,000 yen for an adult relationship on an app, but can’t find many matches? If so, I don’t think things would work out at Universe either.
> There are all kinds of relationships, so what do you think about deciding the allowance first?
To me, deciding on something like “10,000 yen for dinner, 50,000 yen for an adult relationship” is like setting a basic salary or minimum wage. After that, anyone who wants to give more as a tip or bonus can give as much as they feel comfortable with.
Not deciding on the allowance in advance feels like a kind of power harassment by the person in the stronger position.
> Discount stickers
I also prioritize buying items with discount stickers, but my reason is a little different: I feel sorry for the producers if the food gets thrown away.
I haven’t really looked at price tags when shopping for a long time. The same goes for paying the bill by card when dining out. Once you’re over 60 and have a reasonable amount of assets, I suppose you start to feel that way.
It’s 5:30 in the morning right now, and I just saw the office lady who stayed over last night off at the entrance, waving and saying, “Have a good day. Do your best.” She replied on LINE, “Thank you for seeing me off! I’ll do my best today too!”
At dinner, she said, “Lately, I’ve been suddenly bursting into tears for no reason,” so she must be pushing herself too hard. Apparently, she lives alone away from her parents and doesn’t have a boyfriend either.
There are things money alone can’t satisfy. Something like consideration for the other person. I just hope I’m really able to give her that.
> Crosswalk
That’s true, but wasn’t Paper Airplane someone who said he didn’t want to decide on the amount itself from the outset? I thought the discussion was getting a little confusing. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I just found it amusing that the two of you seem to have hit it off despite having completely opposite ways of thinking.
> The respondents here all have their own styles, which makes it interesting.
Yes, exactly. It’s not that I’m denying Paper Airplane’s style either. Recognizing and accepting each other’s differences is the foundation of peaceful coexistence. It’s a world of diversity.
> Paper Airplane
With Paper Airplane, it’s less about being stingy and almost more like a fetish. Something along the lines of, “I want to be needed and recognized as a man.”
His stance is that he gives money to people who satisfy that need, so as someone who believes in the golden rule that “you shouldn’t reject someone else’s fetish even if you can’t understand it,” I have no choice but to accept it.
At first, I thought he was just some strange old narcissist getting drunk on himself, though. LOL
> Anything except necrophilia and pedophilia
I don’t think people with those fetishes would get into papa-katsu in the first place, though. LOL
When you go to an S&M bar or a swingers’ bar, there really are people with some pretty strange fetishes. As long as they aren’t bothering anyone, there’s nothing wrong with just enjoying watching and listening.
In papa-katsu, things like refusing to pay the allowance or secretly ejaculating inside someone without consent would be over the line.
> Is it okay to quote the same amount for a dating club as well?
It seems allowances on apps have been going up lately, too. I’m surprised they’ve already reached about the same level as dating clubs.
With dating clubs, the usual rule is that you have a meal on the first meeting. (Having tea was originally an exception only when the time of day didn’t work for a meal, but it seems some people are doing that routinely now. I wonder if that’s really okay.) In any case, the club sets the first-meeting allowance at ¥10,000.
So if you want ¥70,000 in total, you can simply ask for ¥70,000 when discussing the allowance for future meetings.
The reason I wouldn’t suggest saying ¥60,000 is that the ¥10,000 is a club rule, and many men don’t consider it part of the allowance. If you say ¥60,000 at the first meeting, it’s generally understood that you’ll only receive ¥60,000 at subsequent meetings as well.
Many men also view having a meal even after the first meeting as part of the etiquette unique to dating clubs, unlike ordinary compensated dating. If you say that meals are separate, many men won’t be happy about it. So it’s safer to quote ¥70,000 from the start, assuming that a meal—including the time it takes—will be part of the arrangement.
Many men believe that women enjoy having meals together and are looking for a more well-rounded relationship. If you say meals cost extra, some may think, “Is she basically a sex worker? If she’s only interested in the physical side, she’s not worth dating.”
For that reason, it’s better not to bring up charging separately for meals.
That said, some men do use dating clubs in much the same way as ordinary compensated dating. Those men prioritize value for money, so if you ask for ¥70,000, they may decide it’s a bit too much.
In that case, I think it may be better to say ¥50,000 and, if the subject of dinner comes up, give a reasonable excuse—such as saying you’re on a diet—so you can head to the hotel.
I’m a little hung up on “7 for both” myself…
At first, I thought, “What does that even mean?” But I suppose meals requiring a dress code or other more demanding arrangements might be billed separately. Personally, I’d be thinking, “If I’m already treating her to dinner, why should I also be charged something like a companion fee?”
That said, if your market value is high—or your papa (a male supporter) is completely smitten with you—it might work.
Good luck.
I think that sounds good.
The first meeting may vary depending on which type of arrangement you choose, but you could offer ¥10,000 for transportation at the first meeting, then explain your terms when you move forward with the relationship.
I don’t know about apps other than Patro, but if there are people who agree to those terms, there’s likely to be sufficient demand on Universe as well.
That said, unlike apps, there are rules regarding things like securing time depending on the type of arrangement, and you can’t communicate in advance. So please keep those points in mind and enjoy your experience.
Hope this helps.
I’ve always wondered:
- The details of the date—where you’ll go, what kind of meal you’ll have, etc.
- The length of time she’ll be with you—two hours or four?
How can the allowance be decided without that information?
Personally, if the date is longer, I’m willing to pay more even for dinner only.
Edit:
Yozakura-san, thank you for your comment.
If the meal or hotel costs less, I add the difference to the allowance. Also, since I visit various commercial facilities, a date without an adult relationship still normally lasts about four hours.
One of the good things about dating clubs is that both people can present the terms they prefer. Once you’ve gotten closer, you can make arrangements, but when negotiating with someone you’re meeting for the first time, it’s difficult to know how much should be decided in advance.
Kamihikoki-san,
Yes, exactly.
My ideal date would be driving around, picking up a light meal at Starbucks, and eating while enjoying a beautiful view.
Another edit:
With so many different kinds of arrangements, I find myself wondering again whether it’s really appropriate to decide only the allowance first.
Especially when you’re not close yet, I think you need to carefully confirm the terms of the arrangement. Otherwise, one person may end up thinking, “This isn’t what I expected” or “That’s not what we agreed on.”
Yet another edit:
Of course, the allowance should be decided first, but I think both people would feel more comfortable if the terms were included as well—for example, saying, “I’m expecting dinner to last around three hours.”
Without knowing the terms, you can’t decide what kind of date to plan.
I worked at a hostess club for a long time, so I’ve heard countless stories about “difficult customers.” Since so many customers make their own assumptions, I believe it’s important for both people to clearly state their expectations.
One more edit:
Mac-san, I’m sorry—I misunderstood you.
The people answering here all have their own styles, which makes it interesting. One of the fun things about dating clubs is being able to look for women who suit your style.
One more edit:
Kamihikoki-san, I’m also often asked to act as a sounding board.
I try to make sure I can provide women with time they can spend without feeling anxious.
It makes me a little happy when a woman falls asleep beside me on the drive home.
So does that mean the allowance is 50,000 yen for an adult relationship (intimate) only? That part caught my attention a little.
In my case, the allowance varies greatly depending on the girl’s standing. For the girls at the top, the amount is the same for an adult relationship (intimate) as it is for dinner.
I’ve been dating one of the top-tier girls for about a year and a half without an adult relationship (intimate), and I’m completely satisfied with her.
I think it’s best to present your terms exactly as they are. That way, you’ll be able to date a papa who matches them.
Allowances and the details of dates vary from person to person. If you clearly communicate what you want, you’ll probably find someone who matches you fairly quickly.
Since you’ve also used apps, it seems that you prioritize the allowance and time efficiency more than the relationship itself. So, to find someone compatible in that regard, I think it’s best to communicate your expectations and make decisions early on.
At Universe Dating Club, there are probably at least a few men who understand that allowances are part of the arrangement but would still prefer a woman who wants to enjoy the relationship itself. To avoid matching with that kind of papa, you should be clear and assertive about your preferences.
¥20,000 for dinner isn’t particularly high, but ¥70,000 including an adult relationship is quite an unusual amount at Universe—more typical of someone experienced in papa-katsu or a seasoned participant. For a papa who doesn’t want an adult relationship, that amount might be unimaginable. On the other hand, for a papa who does want one, ¥100,000–¥400,000 could be quite realistic, especially if you were receiving ¥50,000 through an app.
You might be able to make a considerable amount if you work at it.
> If the restaurant is upscale and the allowance is increased accordingly, that would be fine.
That’s how dating and relationships are supposed to be, really.
Women dress up, put extra effort into their makeup and outfits, and come looking forward to the date. Still, whether male or female, very few people are genuinely interested in food enough to regularly visit upscale restaurants, so meeting someone who shares that interest is quite rare and valuable.
At a club, if the woman isn’t particularly interested in food—which is true of most women who say they don’t care what they eat—she would probably be happier receiving an extra ¥10,000–¥20,000 allowance while eating at McDonald’s or MOS Burger.
I doubt many women would welcome spending ¥70,000–¥80,000 on the meal and receiving only ¥10,000–¥20,000 as an allowance, with nothing else changing.
In your case, Crossing-Pedestrian, would it be correct to say that you decide on a total budget based on the length of time and then give her whatever remains after deducting the expenses? If so, I think there are many women at the club whose needs would match that arrangement.
When you think of it as a relationship, I do understand your point:
> It also feels wrong to change the allowance depending on the amount of time or what we do together.
From the man’s perspective, I would give her the same allowance even if we met for only an hour—or even five minutes. So, if she continues wanting to stay together, the allowance wouldn’t change, even if ten hours passed.
During that time, I would cover the cost of meals and outings, and we could simply continue enjoying ourselves together.
> Buying a light meal at Starbucks while driving around...
That saves the time spent eating at a restaurant and improves time efficiency. You can enjoy eating in the car as well. Having a completely private space for the two of you creates an incredibly comfortable atmosphere that’s hard to describe.
I once saw a member of parliament on TV hurriedly eating a convenience-store sandwich, perhaps to show how busy he was. Treating one of life’s precious meals so carelessly—and deliberately choosing to broadcast that scene—made him look like someone working at a chaotic company where everyone was constantly rushing around.
He’s supposed to be a representative entrusted with making this country more prosperous, yet it gave the impression that he handled other matters carelessly and superficially as well. Of course, some people will see it that way and others won’t. That’s the world we live in. (He lost the next election.)
**Update**
> As someone who loves discount stickers, I was happy to feel that our attitudes toward money might be similar. This is the kind of thing that really depends on the person, though（笑）
That’s funny（笑） I can relate.
I’ve gone to a woman’s place, eaten the lunch she made, and spent the afternoon lounging around on her bed. Then, in the evening, she would go to the supermarket, buy ingredients, and make dinner for us. Sometimes the prepared foods, sushi, or meat would have discount stickers on them too.
> I’ve been dating him for about a year and a half without an adult relationship, and I have absolutely no complaints about him.
That’s wonderful. Women generally don’t like feeling that a man is only after their body. Some men and women believe that the connection itself is what matters, especially when it continues without an adult relationship, and I think that’s very important.
For some couples, an adult relationship becomes even more special precisely because it develops on top of that foundation.
> It made me wonder again whether deciding on the allowance first is really the right way to do things.
I really feel the same way.
Especially when the relationship is intimate.
If you meet regularly every month or every week, it’s easy to set the allowance almost like a contract. But if you want to enjoy a relationship that isn’t standardized—one where both people genuinely have fun and bring fulfillment to each other each time—it seems more natural to meet a few times, perhaps progress to an adult relationship, confirm your compatibility, and then consider the overall relationship, including the allowance.
**Additional update**
> Since I worked at a hostess club for a long time, I’ve heard countless stories about “problem customers.”
That’s true.
For a long time, I’ve seen my role with women as being someone who comforts women who receive money from men. A host might receive a great deal of money from women, but I would simply be called by women and go to see them, with no money changing hands on either side. It was an even easier relationship than being a host.
Women would talk to me about all sorts of things they couldn’t even tell their female friends, and relieve their stress. That was my role.
As my popularity among women at the club grew and offers started pouring in, they sometimes called me simply to talk or ask for advice rather than for the allowance.
Whether inside or outside the club, women could relax, vent, and feel comforted because they weren’t receiving money from me and could behave however they wanted without feeling stressed.
At the root of it all, I’m not trying to satisfy myself. At the club, my standard is: “Was the woman satisfied?” My idea is to give her something as thanks for the pleasure she gave me.
It never starts with the thought, “She satisfies me, so how much allowance should I give her?”
What matters to me is whether I’m someone she needs, whether she needs to meet me, whether she would enjoy the date, and whether she can feel satisfied. Of course, this is based on already liking her when I make the offer.
Thanks to all the men who spend money at hostess clubs, lounges, men’s esthetic salons, and similar places, I’ve been able to take on the role of listening to those women’s complaints.
For a woman to meet me and relieve her stress as much as she wants, the fact that no money is involved makes it comforting. I don’t have the looks that make women fall in love and lavish money on me like a host, so I think I was—or am—the right distance for beautiful women.
That’s why I fundamentally believe that when allowances or money are involved, women find it harder to express their true feelings because they inevitably have to be considerate. I’ve always felt that women dislike men who are only after their bodies, but dislike the pressure of money even more.
I realize this is unusual, so I can understand why people might find it strange. Still, while believing that everyone has their own role and strengths, I intend to keep adapting and figuring out what works for me.
> Discount stickers
Earlier, I found two slices of sea bream at the supermarket for about ¥300 after a discount. I made and ate a sea-bream poêlé, seared on one side, and homemade food really is something special.
You don’t often get that kind of emotional impact when eating out, but if it’s a date, I want us to have something delicious. (If I were alone, Yoshinoya would be perfectly fine for my last meal（笑）.) I like surprising people, so whenever I have some free time, I walk around town looking for interesting restaurants.
I enjoy cooking, so I also have fun browsing supermarkets. These days, vegetables and meat are so delicious on their own that I’m often surprised.
Looking back, during summer vacation in high school, my girlfriend, who was the team manager, would come to my house after club practice, make us lunch, and we would relax in my room until evening. That was the kind of life we had.
Even with women from the club, I sometimes cooked a special meal at their home for an anniversary or other occasion. Perhaps the desire to entertain and make someone happy hasn’t really changed, whether then or now.
What kind of person is the questioner?
The more clearly you understand that about yourself, the better.
Is your goal simply—or mainly—to receive an allowance?
Would you rather spend an enjoyable time together?
Are you sacrificing your own time?
Do you want to satisfy yourself, or are you the type who wants to make the other person happy?
Everyone is different, and each person has different strengths, desires, feelings, and ways of interpreting things. The more you understand yourself, the easier it may be to become deeply engaged and find something meaningful from the experience.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but in my case, it would turn into a hotel-only arrangement.
A hotel-only relationship may get boring faster.
I’ve never had anyone I was seeing long-term—more than a year—ask for an additional allowance when we went out for a meal or something. (When we met for dinner only because I was on my period or for a similar reason, I would give them an allowance of 10,000–20,000 yen.)
If you’re looking for a long-term relationship rather than a transactional relationship, I think it’s better not to set terms that limit things to hotel meetings.
One of the good things about papa-katsu (compensated dating in Japan) is that you can decide your own worth—or allowance—yourself. So if that’s what you want, I think you should go for it.
In this case, if you choose Type C, it’s mostly dinner plus an adult relationship (intimate), so you could say that your terms are 70,000 yen for dinner plus an adult relationship, and 20,000 yen for dinner only (no intimacy).
