Regarding the terms we were just discussing.

Please consider Kamihikōki-san a special case. To put it bluntly, I think they’re someone who can instantly build a relationship that goes beyond the usual framework of a dating club. Neither Kamihikōki-san nor the women they meet would suddenly go on dates lasting several hours if they didn’t click and enjoy each other’s company. If women disliked them, blocked them right away, or left a lot of negative feedback, they wouldn’t be able to answer questions here. That said, the person asking this question—and many people who are new to or inexperienced with papa-katsu (compensated dating in Japan), both men and women—can easily misunderstand this. I absolutely don’t want others to imitate Kamihikōki-san’s approach, and I do feel that it’s not really papa-katsu as such. So, just like with people who want to increase their allowance, I think it’s fine as long as they’re doing it that way themselves. Sorry for the long preface, but personally, I don’t really care either way about receiving transportation money in advance. If I don’t receive transportation money at the first meeting (to clarify: transportation money, not an allowance), I could have received it through the club anyway. And since I have no intention of continuing with someone who won’t even cover my transportation, I don’t see why it matters when I receive it, as long as I do. That said, I understand that women ask to receive it in advance because it helps ease the anxiety of those new to papa-katsu. I’d like to tell women that they don’t need to worry about something like that, and I also think men should be willing to cooperate if doing so helps things go smoothly. In short, either way, it’s really not a big deal. Marika

I hand it over first—it’s less hassle that way lol. The fact that there are so many detailed rules really shows how often mismatches happen. And it’s questionable whether simply following the rules makes you look like a gentleman and actually increases the chances of matching, right? lol For example, if it’s such a mismatch that one of you wants to leave just five minutes after meeting, do you really need rules? That’s what I wonder. Personally, I think the key is not doing things the other person dislikes and doing things that make them happy. The question is how quickly you can pick up on those things and adapt accordingly. Everyone is different, and women all have different rules and preferences, so you have no choice but to figure it out from their conversation and facial expressions. It’s not that easy, though lol Honestly, I don’t really care whether transportation money is handed over in advance, but I don’t have a strong reason to resist it, so I give it to them upfront lol Being a gentleman isn’t about following the club’s recommended rules. It’s about whether the woman feels that you’re a gentleman. There are probably plenty of things in real-life situations that simply can’t be turned into a manual lol That’s why I enjoy the posts by Kami Hikoki and Makeotoko—they contain a lot of interesting and useful insights. Potassium’s perspective from the woman’s side is also fascinating. On the other hand, it’s clear that some women realize they’re being tested by men, while others don’t lol. Not that many people actually try to figure out what men dislike or enjoy lol If both people can avoid what the other dislikes and pursue what makes them happy, it can turn into an enjoyable, ongoing relationship. So I hope the kind of matching people are looking for is exactly that lol Being grateful to receive and finding joy in giving—when both people can do that, the relationship can grow so much deeper. I’m like that too lol. But there are definitely women who understand that I’m not simply putting up with things just because they’re beautiful or young. That kind of match is truly valuable lol To be blunt, no rules are really useful for that purpose. They’re just something you follow lol Honestly, even 15 minutes might be enough: “The rule is that you meet for 15 minutes.” After that, it’s free love. That might actually work lol If it’s only 15 minutes, whether the transportation money is given before or after wouldn’t matter either lol

> I was told at the interview that paying in advance is a club rule, but I still haven’t met a gentleman who actually does so. If you come across a man who doesn’t pay in advance, please keep submitting poor reviews about him. Once he accumulates enough negative reviews, he’ll be forcibly removed from the club, so eventually I think there will be no men left who refuse to pay in advance. > Advance payment for transportation expenses is merely an obligation to make a reasonable effort. That’s not correct. “An obligation to make a reasonable effort”—meaning it’s only a request—is a transitional measure for older members who joined before advance payment became the rule. (That said, I think many men do pay in advance because they understand the intent of the rule.) Anyone who joined after that is not merely expected to make a reasonable effort. It’s a rule. The rule is explained upon joining. It has already been over five years since the rule was changed. Men who joined after June 2017 were only informed of the new rule when they joined, so they are required to pay in advance as a matter of club policy. If they don’t, they’re violating the rules. Naturally, anyone who left the club and later rejoined also agreed to the new rules upon rejoining.

I don’t give the allowance upfront because it’s a rule—I do it because a gentleman should naturally do so. I’ve never actually read the regulations, though, sorry lol. If you really don’t want to pay upfront, I think you should just meet women through regular pickup instead. These days, regular pickup is my main thing, but even with women who later become papa-katsu partners, I have an adult relationship with them once first, then start giving them an allowance from the next meeting onward. The first time has to be free. I’m particular about that as a hunter’s pride. For reference, this is my usual approach: ■ Type A and Type B I give them 20,000 yen for transportation within three minutes of meeting. In almost every case, I arrive first and wait, so I leave the transportation money somewhere inconspicuous on the table and say, “This is for your transportation,” while handing it to them. We spend two hours together and then part ways. If the woman arrives first, I give it to her right away when no staff are around. If the mood is good and she doesn’t seem eager to leave, I give her another 20,000 yen upfront and we go somewhere else. The maximum total time is four hours, with transportation and allowance included, for a maximum of 40,000 yen. As an exception, for women I offered a pay-per-meeting allowance of 200,000 yen to, I give them 40,000 yen immediately after meeting and part ways after two hours. Looking back, maybe I should have offered 50,000 yen. I bring up the adult-relationship allowance immediately after giving them the transportation money—so within about three minutes of meeting. At that point, there’s no mood to speak of yet, so basically I deliberately bring up the allowance while the woman is still nervous and get that conversation out of the way. Given my personality, I think this is the smoothest way to handle it. ■ Type C (I’ve never made an offer to a Type D) I give her 20,000 yen right after we meet and tell her the amount for the adult relationship, just like with Types A and B. Even if she isn’t my type, if she seems to like me and is open to a Type C arrangement, I’ll invite her to a private room, so I discuss the allowance upfront. Looking back, I’ve never once failed to invite a Type C woman to a private room on the first day. There have been plenty of times when I didn’t invite a Type A or B woman on a second date, though. Getting back to the point: because of Universe’s four-hour rule, after about an hour of dinner I’ll say something like: “Will you still have enough time after dinner?” “I’d like to invite you somewhere private afterward.” If she agrees, I give her the additional adult-relationship allowance we agreed on. It’s usually between 100,000 and 140,000 yen. Since that’s separate from the transportation money, the total comes to between 120,000 and 160,000 yen. A dating club relationship is based on an allowance from the outset, so I finish the money conversation in seconds and then start creating the mood. The reason I do it this way is that, even if I’m not confident about my looks, I have absolute confidence in my communication skills. So even if things get awkward when the allowance comes up early in the dinner date, I’m confident I can turn things around. I think men who worry about “the mood” and things like that simply lack communication skills and the ability to escort a woman properly. ■ Rare case I became close with a Type B woman, and on the first day she said, “I’d like to go to your place.” So we went to my apartment. Since she was Type B, I hadn’t planned on having an adult relationship, so I had only given her the transportation money and an additional 20,000 yen. But once we got inside and sat on the sofa, I felt like kissing her. When I did, she responded very passionately, and we couldn’t stop. When I touched her breasts and she started making sounds, I suddenly realized what was happening, stopped, and said: “Sorry, I’ll give you your allowance.” I stopped, gave her the allowance, and then we resumed. What do you think about that? lol I thought that if I had an adult relationship with her without giving her the allowance, she might keep wondering, “Is he going to pay me?” and be unable to focus. So I gave her the money even though it meant interrupting things. Even now, I don’t think it was necessarily the right choice—but I don’t think it was wrong either. When we were leaving, she specifically said, “You’re truly a gentleman, including the way you escorted me and handled the allowance.” She also kissed me before we parted, so I suppose it was the right choice for her. P.S. I feel bad mentioning people by name, but despite all the criticism, I don’t dislike Kamihikōki-san, who sticks to his style of having an adult relationship with his favorite women without discussing the allowance beforehand, then handing it over when they leave. For the same reason, I don’t dislike Kazu-san, who insists on paying 50,000 yen per meeting even at The Salon—though he’s incredibly unpopular there lol. I think both of them have real conviction. I don’t like people who hide behind powerful figures or form factions, but I don’t dislike people who stubbornly stick to their own style, even when our values don’t match. P.S. I think Kamihikōki-san uses his answers to promote his own dating style and patiently waits for reverse offers from women who are compatible with it. In my view, this kind of hunting style only works because he currently has several regular partners he gets along with, so he doesn’t need to force anything.

What is it that you hope to gain by joining the club? Surely you’re not going to spend eight hours together just because: > “He asked me to date him without discussing the allowance.” What a waste of time… Wouldn’t you be better off working part-time at a convenience store? The man you’re meeting is probably at least somewhat busy too… The allowance is the most important point. This is a club based on the understanding that both sides’ expectations in that regard need to be met. There are probably also women who feel: > “I feel more comfortable and can enjoy our time together when he discusses the allowance early on.” On the other hand, some people lose the mood at that point, end the meeting, and go home. As I’ve mentioned several times in my answers, I discuss the allowance in advance with women other than those I’m particularly interested in. The reason is that I don’t feel there’s any chance of continuing things with them, so I don’t have the energy to create a good atmosphere, build excitement, or help them enjoy themselves. I also don’t think I can earn their trust or make them feel comfortable. That’s why I bring up the allowance first. In other words, if I discuss it in advance, it means I’m not particularly interested in her. There have even been times when I simply had tea with someone for 20–30 minutes and then sent her home. When I first joined, I used to give the transportation allowance upfront, but I stopped doing that partway through and still don’t give it in advance. The reason is that the transportation allowance is only 0.5–1, which is too little. It’s also awkwardly different from what I consider a reasonable transportation allowance. Giving it twice would feel strange, so I’d rather give it afterward, when I can provide a more substantial amount. I can’t imagine having a woman come all the way to meet me and giving her less than 1 for transportation, so even when we part after the aforementioned 20–30 minutes, I still give her more than 1. I think what matters for you is having a good relationship, so I don’t think it’s wise to focus too much on the transportation allowance on the first day. And during your first month, there’s nothing wrong with cherishing the man who liked you right away and made you an offer. Additional note: As for me, I accompany women to outlet malls, lunch, dinner, karaoke, drinks, and bars—without drinking a single drop of alcohol myself—simply going wherever the cheerful woman (or perhaps drunk woman?) wants to go. I’m happy to do it because I enjoy seeing women having a good time. Finally: For a man, starting with a clear-cut settlement of the allowance can feel like there’s no mood or romance to it at all… Since we both understand that this is a relationship involving an allowance, I don’t think it’s necessary to actually say the word “allowance.” That said, lately I’ve started paying upfront by credit card for supplements, drinks, bedding, cleansing products, pillows, exercise equipment, trial products, mail-order purchases, and so on. They used to be paid for afterward, but forgetting to pay is a hassle, and returns are a hassle too, so I just pay for everything in advance by card now. Maybe paying a little upfront isn’t so bad after all? Perhaps I’m getting used to it. P.S. I forgot to mention something I’ve written several times before. I honestly believe that “sex exists for women,” so the idea that an adult relationship (intimate) should involve compensation doesn’t really occur to me. Compensation for an adult relationship? And before anything even happens? That’s why, when I like a woman, I increasingly tend to treat her the same way I would someone outside the club. At the same time, I suppose part of me believes that there’s no allowance amount that a woman would truly be satisfied with until after intimacy has taken place. In reality, I also think that only after intimacy can you determine how much the woman wants to see you, how important the allowance is to her, and ultimately how much the man is willing to provide. I just can’t quite wrap my head around giving an allowance for an adult relationship… I think of the allowance as payment for spending time with the woman. Of course, in a club setting, it would be strange not to add extra compensation for the adult relationship, but still… P.P.S. Perhaps this four-hour issue was also established because of the fast-paced times we live in and the COVID pandemic, and the resulting mismatches were unavoidable. Given how much women have changed recently, perhaps many of these issues will be resolved once the pandemic is truly behind us. The change feels almost as dramatic as going from torrential rain to clear skies, and my expectations are rising that we’ve entered a new era. I can write this because things have changed recently, but perhaps there was a great deal of pent-up frustration during the worst of the pandemic’s torrential rain. Fortunately, I spent the past year or so enjoying a good relationship without making any new offers, so I didn’t personally experience problems from either the men’s or women’s side. Now that the skies are beginning to clear, I hope this will become a good period that we can eventually look back on with a laugh and say, “Those torrential rains were truly awful.” Perhaps many of the men who had already given up hope and were considering leaving the club have been so impressed by the remarkable changes in women recently that they now feel: > “I’ll stick with Universe for life.” Wouldn’t this create a positive cycle for both men and women? It seems likely to make the arrangement more appealing to both sides. > “Securing four hours is recommended” The fact that it says “recommended” suggests to me that this was a rule they had no choice but to introduce during the worst of the torrential rain. That leaves room for it to naturally shift back toward encouraging free-form dating once the skies are clear again. Male members may already recognize that the clear-sky period is approaching—or that the change has already taken place.

Whether it’s through a dating club or otherwise, I hand over the allowance right after we meet the first time. If we meet outside the venue, I do it when there’s no one around. If we meet at a restaurant, I hand it over after we sit down and place our first order, or right after ordering drinks—basically as soon as the server leaves the table. As for discussing the allowance, perhaps I’m fortunate with the people I meet, or maybe it’s just part of my personality, but I usually finish that conversation by the middle of the meal. So far, I’ve never felt that the atmosphere became awkward because of it. (I can still create a good atmosphere after discussing the allowance.) Also, this hasn’t happened at a club so far (although I haven’t made that many offers), but if I decide that I won’t continue meeting someone, I don’t discuss the allowance and generally don’t exchange contact information either. Incidentally, everyone I’ve met through a club has stayed for about four hours on the first meeting before we parted ways. I’ve never ended a meeting after two hours or less. Even among people who work regular jobs, there aren’t that many who are genuinely gentlemanly or have that kind of presence. And, if I may be frank, as people get older, they tend to forget rules, let things go in one ear and out the other, and become more forgetful. So I think there are certainly some men like the one you met. At the very least, I found the interviews for male members extremely perfunctory. In practice, as long as men pay what they’re supposed to, there seem to be hardly any hurdles to joining a club or choosing a membership class. Clubs are businesses to some extent, so rather than expecting too much from their screening process, women may have no choice but to deal appropriately with an ungentlemanly man themselves if they happen to encounter one—even if it leaves them feeling discouraged.

I generally hand it over shortly after we meet, once the timing feels right. As I recall, this rule wasn’t in place when Joe joined. It seems to have been introduced because quite a few men either forgot to pay the transportation allowance or deliberately failed to do so. So Joe’s understanding is that paying it in advance is encouraged, but not strictly required. Not paying it at all is out of the question, but even if it ends up being paid after dinner, I hope we can ask without making a big fuss. P.S. It seems my understanding was too lenient. Paying the transportation allowance in advance is apparently mandatory, not merely encouraged. At the same time, I honestly feel relieved when Marika, who was once a female member, says it’s “nothing to worry about.” However, comments like that from male members could potentially violate the rules, so paying in advance is the only safe option.

I usually give the transportation money upfront. Since I often meet women at restaurants, I typically hand it over shortly after we’re seated, while the server is away. I believe the vast majority of the other male respondents also paid upfront. As an aside, when we’re moving somewhere else after dinner, I make sure to discuss the allowance and get her agreement before leaving. If I’m not interested in inviting a Type C woman, or if I’m meeting a Type B woman, we simply part ways after leaving the restaurant. The shortest meeting lasted 30 minutes, while the longest was two and a half hours when the woman requested a full French course meal. Adding this after reading Potassium’s answer: Yes, it seems that men who value setting the mood tend to do it that way, and some women who prefer that kind of approach also seem to like the Paper Airplane method. Personally, I’ve had several experiences where women seemed uncomfortable when I brought up the allowance. I’ve even been scolded and told that it was too early to have that conversation. I think this is also a matter of chemistry.