I’m Andy, a member.
I’ve had just under 50 offers through Patro and the club.
My allowance may be lower than what’s generally considered the going rate. I don’t change the amount depending on who I meet. (I did increase it for one person after our relationship deepened.)
I meet them for a first meeting, and about half of them have met me a second time. There are various reasons I don’t continue seeing someone, but it always comes down to instinct—whether I wasn’t interested, thought it would be exhausting, or felt it was going to become a long-term battle.
Regardless of class, two women—one B2 and one C type—turned me down. I had already told them the allowance amount. When I messaged them to meet a second time, I found that they had blocked me. I don’t know whether the allowance was too low or whether they simply found me unacceptable on a personal level.
Other than that, every time I’ve taken the initiative to contact someone, it has worked out.
I made offers to about three A types, all Platinum members:
- One lost interest after dinner on the second meeting, and it ended.
- One lost interest at the first meeting, and it ended.
- With one, an adult relationship (intimate) began after dinner on the second meeting.
I made offers to four Black-class members in total:
- Two B1s: I asked for their contact information at the first meeting, but I gradually faded out. I realized it would be a long-term battle and, although it was disappointing, decided to withdraw.
- One B2: She canceled on the day, so we never met.
- One C: We’ve continued seeing each other since the second meeting, at an allowance below the going rate.
To get back to the point, if you offer the allowance at the going rate mentioned by the person seeking advice, I think it will almost always be accepted.
I’ve never been asked for ¥100,000, and I don’t know whether I avoided such women or simply instinctively steered clear of them, but I haven’t met any female members like that, so I can’t speak to the “Black women” everyone mentions.
As long as you remain humble and don’t become someone who is troublesome for a woman in various ways, I think things will almost always progress to an adult relationship (intimate).
Hope this helps.
> You’re asking whether, with a B1-type woman, you can move things forward after having dinner together three or more times.
It seems that many B1-type women are thinking more along the lines of five or six dates, rather than just three.
Because the label includes a B, you might assume they belong to the B category, but in reality, it’s better to think of them as part of the A category—essentially a variation of A.
In other words, they’re not women who want to have dinner forever. If you continue going on dinner dates, the relationship may eventually become an adult relationship (intimate). That’s about the level of expectation you should have.
So if you’re only planning on three dates, it’s probably best not to make an offer to a B1 woman. But if you still want to make the offer and hope to move into an adult relationship, then those three dinner dates themselves are important.
Not making reservations and wandering around looking for somewhere to go is completely out of the question. You need to make reservations even while accepting that she might not show up.
You should also be prepared to take a taxi, even if the distance is within the minimum fare range.
These are two things that are well known for generating complaints from women, even at Universe. Even experienced men sometimes receive complaints about them.
The distance men consider “nearby” and the distance women consider “nearby” are different. A man may think it’s close, while the woman may be thinking, “Do I really have to walk this far? In high heels?”
Some men think it’s better to decide on a restaurant after meeting because they want to choose one the woman likes. But that strategy is only available to men who can walk into any restaurant as VIPs and get priority seating.
Normally, it’s quite common to arrive somewhere and find it crowded, then have to wait. That can also lead to complaints. So even if it means taking the risk of making a reservation despite the possibility of a last-minute cancellation, you should reserve a table in advance.
I’m not sure how much you mean by “the going rate plus one,” but you shouldn’t forget that plenty of men offer 100,000 yen or more to women in the high-end category.
It would be safest to think of 150,000 yen as merely average. And since you’re trying to shorten the process and move into an adult relationship after only about three dates, you’d be better off preparing a considerably larger amount.
> I thought I’d go in expecting to get completely crushed.
I’m not sure why you’d deliberately go in expecting to get crushed, but if she’s really that much your type, it seems better to come up with a proper strategy and prepare an allowance several times higher than usual.
Black-ranked women tend to be less concerned about the amount of their allowance. They do have a minimum they expect, but they generally don’t fixate on whether it’s high or low. If anything, I think Gold- and Platinum-ranked women pay more attention to the allowance amount.
Being a Black-ranked woman or B1 type doesn’t mean she won’t move toward an adult relationship (intimate). Just as club men seek adult relationships, Black-ranked women also consider an allowance that comes with a certain level of adult relationship.
If she’s a Black B1 type, I wouldn’t particularly recommend moving forward if you’re going to expect an adult relationship every time you meet.
Unless there’s something about you besides the allowance that makes her want to see you, even if she finds the allowance attractive, she won’t waste her time making plans to meet you.
Also, the higher the allowance, the more demanding the time together becomes, so it’s only natural that she may want to keep the time spent together shorter.
Whether she’s B1, A type, or a Black-ranked woman, barring rare exceptions, there’s no need for you to rush things. She continues meeting you to decide whether she’s comfortable taking things in that direction, so there’s no need to bring up the allowance either. Sooner or later, if she brings it up herself or the two of you really hit it off, things can naturally progress to going to a hotel.
I don’t think the man needs to make the first move, nor does he need to negotiate the allowance.
Since everyone has been sharing their estimated probabilities, based on the current situation over the past few years, I’d say:
Black B1: 80%
Black B2: 100%
Black C: 100%
I’ve never made an offer to a D type, so I don’t know about that one.
I doubt many women turn someone down solely because of the allowance amount. I think it depends much more on the man himself, the relationship between them, how comfortable and healed she feels around him, their chemistry, and the benefits she gets from seeing him.
It’s not just women—even men will meet someone if they genuinely want to see them. Black-ranked women, especially, can choose to meet only men who meet their standards, and they probably won’t force themselves into anything either.
There’s no need to think of it as something special just because it’s a club. It’s perfectly fine to approach it like an ordinary romantic connection. If money—the allowance—comes into the relationship later, like it does with a romantic partner or spouse, then unlike ordinary romance, the “incentive” doesn’t run out. Because of the allowance, it may even be possible to maintain a deep bond that continues to fulfill both people, lasting longer than a romance or even a marriage.
After all, the allowance can help prevent both people from getting bored or losing interest… unlike love…
Update
As for how many men who make offers to Black B1 and B2 women actually progress to an adult relationship:
For women receiving a flood of offers, my impression is that more than 70% of the men don’t make it that far.
They initially receive more than ten offers, so during their first month, their schedule fills up with nearly ten first meetings in order. A man who has met her once may be told, “Let’s meet again next month,” only after she has met nearly a dozen other men—or even more. Most men end up waiting for that message…
While they’re waiting, some stop contacting her, get forgotten, or simply miss their chance.
If you properly wait an entire month, it’s already too late. Club men, take note!
Women are already exhausted just coordinating all the first-meeting arrangements. Then having to contact someone for a second meeting—while getting confused about who’s who—is a lot to ask of her.
Meanwhile, if you meet her tomorrow, the day after, today, sometime this week, or whenever she has a convenient opening, you can keep meeting smoothly. Before a month has even passed and before she has finished meeting the men in order, you may be able to see her three, four, or five times and progress as far as discovering your compatibility in an adult relationship.
From the woman’s perspective, she may already be receiving a proper allowance for an adult relationship, while the other men are still only at the dinner stage, making new offers, or being a hassle to deal with. If a man hasn’t contacted her, she may not even know whom she should reach out to.
Ironically, women who receive a flood of offers may be easier to progress with during that window.
Club men, don’t give up just because she has a lot of offers. Even if you’re somewhat late getting started with a woman who receives many offers, it can still work out.
With a Black B1 woman, there’s an opportunity at any point.
I think that’s because there are very few men who are B1 types.
With a B1 type, things can actually remain dinner dates for more than 100 meetings if she’s an A type. If she’s truly a B1 type, she may bring up that possibility herself by the fourth or fifth meeting. With a B2 type, things may move in that direction on the second meeting—or even the first day. The man needs to be a B1 type himself in terms of how he handles things.
Just as the B types are divided into different categories, B1 men and women and B2 men and women may seem similar, but they’re actually completely different.
Speaking only from my experience with the women I’ve met, many seemed to care less about getting an allowance that was just slightly higher and more about whether they could date comfortably and feel secure with an allowance above the minimum they had in mind.
That might be different if you were prepared to offer an exceptionally generous allowance—enough that things like that wouldn’t matter.
In my case, regardless of class, I’d guess the acceptance rate for B1 (including the former B class) is probably around 20%.
I haven’t received any offers from A or D, while I’ve hardly ever been turned down by B2 or C.
I’ve never made an offer to a Black-rated woman.
I can give you the figures from about five years ago for Standard and Gold:
A: 10%
B: 50% — Back then, B1 and B2 weren’t separated. For B1, I’d say around 40% if she was good at conversation.
C and D: 100%
I’m a losing player who’s been changing his strategy over the past year or so.
Before: offer a big allowance right from the first meeting
Recently: start low and gradually increase the allowance
That said, I’ve never once had a woman who accepted an allowance just 1–2 above the going rate stay with me long-term.
I have no idea why.
>
With A, B1, B2, C, and D, roughly what are the chances of getting into an adult relationship?
A-type black is practically zero, so I have no idea about the odds.
For black B1: 20%
Black B2: 15%
Black C: 10%
Black D: 1%
Something like that, maybe. A black D-type woman would probably turn you down 99% of the time if you offered an allowance of 60,000 yen.
Though I’ve never actually made an offer to a D-type woman, lol.
I’ve only ever had long-term arrangements with women receiving allowances of around 100,000–200,000 yen.
In the end, maybe the fact that I offer a high allowance makes the woman start liking me, and because she likes me, things continue smoothly—a positive cycle, basically.
It’s not that I’m popular with women. I’m probably just relying on what Mac calls “winning with a stack of bills.”
If Mac offers an allowance of 100,000 yen and I offer 50,000 yen, and we were competing for a black B1 woman, I think Mac would win by a landslide.
Out of ten women, Mac would probably win eight of them. Maybe I’d win one or two—but probably not even that. Perhaps Paper Airplane would take the remaining two, lol.
Black B1 is my main playing field, but I feel like it’s becoming polarized:
- Women asking for an allowance of 150,000 yen
- Women who are fine with around 70,000 yen
If you want to keep the allowance down, setting it up as an hourly arrangement is one option.
1. Room only, under an hour and a half: 70,000 yen (one time)
2. Dinner for an hour and a half + room for an hour and a half: 100,000 yen (one time)
3. Room only for three hours: 150,000 yen (guaranteed two times)
Incidentally, when I use this strategy, women almost always choose option 3.
Then they can only do it once and leave in under two and a half hours. Speaking from experience, lol.
The most recent woman was 80,000 yen for one hour, room only.
B1 is my main playing field by far, so I may be in a position to say this, but B1 seems overwhelmingly advantageous for men.
I already have a monthly arrangement, so I don’t need to push things. If a woman tries to drag things out, I can simply cut her off.
In fact, I can’t remember ever meeting a B1 woman who didn’t have an adult date by the third meeting.
In most cases, even with B1, things become intimate by the second meeting.
**Update:**
From my perspective, she looked completely black-rated from every angle, yet somehow I found a gold-rated woman and made her an offer.
I’m planning to propose starting at 20,000–30,000 yen above the going rate and increasing it by 10,000 yen every year. We’ll see what happens.
**Update 2:**
Mac, you’re right. That’s the probability of a black B1-to-D woman accepting an allowance of 60,000 yen.
D-type women are the kind who “don’t really care about the papa’s appearance as long as the terms work,” so in a way, I think they’re refreshingly straightforward about having money as their only criterion.
I can usually tell at the first meeting when there’s a hidden A-type woman lurking among the B1s, so I cut things off. Lying isn’t right.
On the other hand, if she’s genuinely an A-type, I don’t cut her off. I’ll go out for dinner with her as many times as necessary, and I even have an A-type woman I’ve been seeing monthly for three years.
My ace was classified as C-type because I just followed the staff member’s recommendation. But when I met her, she was so delicate and lovely, and I had absolutely no intention of pursuing anything intimate, so we went on dinner dates about ten times.
After continuing with dinner dates for around three months, we eventually became intimate, and that’s where we are now.
It’s been over four years with her, and she just keeps getting cuter. I wonder how much I’ve given her in total, lol.
One more update, so I don’t lose out, lol.
Twice, I went straight from the meeting place to a room with black B-type women.
One time it was a hotel, and the other time it was my place.
Both were letter dates, though. They were both wonderful women.
Since we had agreed on the allowance beforehand, I think they simply wanted to leave with the money. It definitely wasn’t because I’m wonderful. I’d like to believe otherwise, but… tears.
